|photo by Tom Starkweather|
Blake Andrews: I just brought up this old messenger thread, and it seems the last time we chatted was 2014. Did you read the thread? Something about punking _______?
Bryan Formhals: That's weird. Keep that off the record!
OK, you can delete anything later. No worries.
Cool. I love deleting. It’s editing, and I love editing.
But you have a 500 word deletion limit, lol.
I will try to be accurate and succinct.
Your internet history is sort of a story of deletion. Or maybe a story of constant restarts and reboots?
Is that unique to me? I think with all these platforms people are deleting or starting over a lot. Or just abandoning them.
True, I've left a lot of dinosaur bones along the way. I think my blog may be transforming into that. Before that was my Tumblr. My website... It’s just the nature of online material, I think. What ever happened to LPV? Seems like it was around just yesterday.
I lost a lot of the old posts from LPV Magazine because the CMS provider I was using went out of business. I have all the print copies, but the blog posts are toast. I think I have them in a Wordpress backup somewhere but I’m not sure. With the LPV Show, decided to go on hiatus in 2016 because I started a new job and we needed a break. The format was getting a little stale but we have a new plan now.
What's the new plan?
We’ve started working on a new show that builds off the photobook idea. We’ve been mixing in some other topics around walking and the history of New York City. We’ll see how it evolves, perhaps we’ll have some other types of content but no plans yet. We’ll probably sell our books and zines too.
Is it a podcast?
Yeah, it’ll be a podcast but we’re also shooting video so that’ll be a component, but I’m not sure how we’ll use it just yet. There’s a lot of experimentation in the early stages.
What's the format? Will it be written material? Or just audio, or what?
We’ll probably have a presence on Youtube and Instagram, and then maybe Twitter. I think newsletters are somewhat replacing blogs at this point.
Go big or go home.
Or maybe, always have a side hustle or go home! We’re starting with modest expectations, building from the LPV audience and then staying open to how it can evolve.
You left Shutterstock, right? So your time for other projects has opened up. Do you see this thing replacing your job and making money? Or is it more a labor of love?
Yes, I left Shutterstock at the end of March for a few reasons, one was to pursue this new project, but also work on my own photography projects while I determine the next step in my career.
I’m doing a few small side gigs at the moment but also looking for freelance projects (get in touch!) or full time work for the right type of company. I’m looking to move into greentech, smartcities, or ideally something involved with walking and walkability.
I’m not sure this project will ever be the primary money maker, but we’re planning on building it out over the long term and it aligns with the areas we’re passionate about, plus it’ll show off our production capabilities.
I think like most photographers and artists, I’ll have multiple jobs throughout my life, that shift with the economy and my interests. I’m trying to stay focused on work that keeps me excited while staying open to any sort of opportunities.
What's the new site called? LPV still? Or a new name?
We have a tentative name but I don’t want to jinx it! I’ve learned my lessons over the years.
Sounds ambitious but I hope it works. You commented to me earlier about the lack of good photo writing online, good critical content. Do you see this new site filling that void?
To clarify, there's definitely good writing happening online and in the photography world. I think my comment was more related to personal blogs which seem to have died except for your blog.
Mine's pretty dead.
Mine's pretty dead.
I don’t foresee this new project focusing purely on photography writing or content. It’s more a vehicle for our personal work and ideas, with more collaborators potentially joining once we get rolling. I’m mostly interested in discovering photobooks around the topics we’re pursuing. The quest is fun. I love photobooks.
Where do you find good writing happening online now? Not to put you on the spot, but I've noticed a definite downhill trend. When I have 20 minutes and want to check up on what's happening out there, I dunno. There's not a lot of consistently solid options anymore. Maybe your newsletter will open up some new options.
I've mostly been paying attention to the established outlets like ASX, Jorg Colberg, 1000 Words, BJP, Aperture. I don't read everything, only the headlines that grab my attention. I’m focused on a few specific topics, so I tend to look out for books and articles around those topics and then just stay open to whatever new pops up, always trying to stay open to new ideas and inspiration. I do love the hunt for new photobooks and just books in general. I finally got a library card.
One thing I noticed with my blog, and maybe why it's fallen off. It's not enough to just write things and put them online. To get things seen requires a ton of extracurricular activity, tweeting or linking or whatever. I just never had the energy for that stuff. So it was a vicious downward circle I guess. No attention means no motivation to write means no attention…
That's definitely true. Creation is only half the battle, distribution is the other half. Media companies have full teams dedicated to just monitoring the data and then boosting on social media. There’s definitely been a shift in how brands and media companies approach social media. A lot of them have created Audience Development departments that focus on growing audiences across different platforms.
How's the library book stash near you?
Here are some samples.
Here are some samples.
These are at the Queens branch?
Yes this is from the Queens library. It's a separate from Manhattan. But it's great. They have a lot of photobooks but you have to go to the Jamaica branch. I plan on making a trip soon.
It's kind of strange. Even in the internet age, libraries are pretty key. Eugene has a few good ones but I've pretty much tapped them out. Not enough new books coming through.
That sucks. I find pretty much get everything I need at the library. Although, I did buy How to Do Nothing from Jenny Odell as an ebook.
Somehow my brain is built so that I ingest photos in a much more profound way from a page, rather than from a screen. Maybe it's just cuz I'm old and never grew up with a ton of screens.
Our brains can't handle the amount of information we encounter online. Lately I’ve tended view online photographs as an ads because they’re often used to promote something else, often a book or a service, a personal brand.
The Internet gives you the illusion that you can reach out and find anything. And it’s true, sort of. But there's real value in physical access. Which is localized, and can't be transported easily. That’s where libraries can find a niche.
For photographers, that locality is fundamental. Because photography requires engagement with the world. You need to be there. You can't make photos from home (unless you're, e.g., Doug Rickard, lol). Musicians can live in Greenland. You can paint pictures in bumfuck Mongolia or wherever. But to make photos you need to be in a place and interact with it.
The best aspect of photography is engaging with the physical world, just being out there. For me, it's part of the obsession with walking because the entire calculation changes, especially how we perceive time and value attention.
|from NYC Trails|
How does walking change your perception of time?
I can't wait to read this book.
For me, when I’m on a long walk time tends to slow down and feels more abundant. Four hours can feel like a week. It's that hyper focused attention mixed with the ability to allow your mind to drift, that allows you to enter into a different perceptual space. I know that sounds like total bullshit! I'm not a neuroscientist so I’m probably not using the right language. That's why I need to read that book. When you add photography with meditative walking, then I truly feel that you can enter new dimensions beyond our normal perception. Or I should say photographic seeing because I don't think you need to actually make the photographs but there's a lot of reverb when you see the actual photos.
I guess I agree with the premise, but books like that kinda of scare me off. I can't read anything which too prescriptive or too self-helpy.
That's definitely a bad headline but you should read the article. It's more about the neuroscience and history. I agree about the self-help angle. There's a lot of that....all over the place these days. The internet if flooded with it. We apparently need a lot of help. There must be something in the culture.
What do you mean you don't need to make the photographs?
I think after years of making photographs, you can focus that same attention on any scene or at any moment. It's a skill. I'm sure you've had those moments where you just watch something very closely but kind of forget to make a photograph or don't choose to. Photography teaches you to pay close attention to all the details.
Dorothea Lange: “A camera is a tool for learning to see things without a camera.” That’s a quote I agree with. But maybe that act of cementing things is fundamental to photography?
A photograph is very specific about what it shows on the surface.
Minor White taught exercises in which students would shoot with no film in the camera. I think that's where you're going with this, that it's all about process and mental attention, etc.
A photograph can embed an incredible amount of information. It's truly amazing.
I love Minor White but definitely don't agree with that exercise. For me the actual photo is very important. Without film in the camera what you’re doing is a different activity.
Yeah I agree with that, but I think some experienced photographers go through that satori moment where they are just on the other side and can focus that attention in very interesting ways.
I agree that the mental space is important too. To get into that mindset of attentiveness. That's great. But photography also goes beyond that.
I agree, that's why we make the photos, print them and edit them into sequences. That's the other part of it and probably for most people far more interesting than the experience or philosophical underpinnings. The art is in the artifact, right?
Did you read the recent stuff with Alec Soth? Apparently he reached Satori?
Yes! Did you watch the short documentary on him? It seemed like he was going to be a Fluxus artist or something. Just move stuff around and 'be' in the moment.
What's a Fluxus artist?
(Googles Fluxus to make sure I'm accurate) "experimental art performances which emphasized the artistic process over the finished product." I remember reading about it years ago when I was studying art history. It was the moment when I was like, “alright, art can basically be anything you want to call art.”
I didn't watch the Soth documentary. But in his last book he talked about the experience of meditation and enlightenment. And I think it had a profound influence on him. He lost some of his edge maybe, I think. Sorry to be so blunt. But seriously, what kind of photos would The Buddha make? Would they be any good? I think The Buddha might make photos like Michael Kenna or Hiroshi Sugimoto. Boring as fuck! Or else, who knows, just wander around without film in the camera. Same thing.
I think Soth is on an interesting artistic journey and will probably continuously question his process and take chances on new ideas.
It’s strange to comment on Soth because he actually made a direct comment on this thing years ago, that photography was NOT a Zen Buddhist activity. Photography involves wanting, and acquisition, and collecting, and all the little things you're supposed to let go of. In his last book he touches on this too, the shift in his photographic desires after meditating to enlightenment. So I dunno.
I agree with that. It made me think of Matt Green. He walked every block in NYC, had a movie made about him. I saw him speak and he thought it was ridiculous to try to capitalize on his walks by making a book or art. He was just doing it. I admire that sort of spiritual approach to it.
Oh wait, I saw a preview of that or something
He's a character. You should watch it. Although, watching a guy walk in NYC might just be something people who walk a lot in NYC might enjoy.
|from Manhattan Greenway|
The thing about NYC, which is true of not many other places, is that everyone walks. It's just ingrained in daily life. Much more so than in most places. OK, let me rephrase that. Walking is part of urban life in any big city. But less dense places, which is where most Americans live, not so much.
Yeah that's one thing that keeps me here, although I loved walking around Philly and Denver too. I think the mid-sized American cities are interesting these days, probably more so that LA and NYC. I need to get on the ground more in some of them.
I walked around Philly for a few hours this Summer. I'd go back. Walked around Denver for 2 days in 2017. No desire to go back.
I liked Denver but it wasn't a walking town yet but seemed to be emerging at least in those Downtown neighborhoods.
Yeah, Denver’s fine. Interesting neighborhoods. Great murals. I think I just spent too much time there, and it was really hot, and I felt my clock ticking and was ready to explore other stuff. Anyway, tell me a bit about The Grand Canyon and what it was like to walk there.
I went to Arches first and then drove to the Grand Canyon. I got there at dusk the first night so just stopped a few places and took in the views. The next morning I woke up at dawn and walked for about 10 hours. It was wonderful and amazing, almost a dream walk. I knew I'd probably never be back so it felt like a once in a lifetime moment. But the Grand Canyon is bizarre. It has somewhat of Vegas feel to it for me. I couldn't put my finger on it. Of course it's difficult to make an original photograph on the South Rim but I didn't really care all that much. I just make the photographs I wanted to make. I love the Southwest though. I will go back at some point. I don't know where next.
Yeah, maybe not a great place to make original photos. But for cosmic connection? Yes. I think Capitol Reef is special. But the specific choice is pretty personal. You could pick any of about ten parks down there and wander and just get lost. And maybe find yourself in the process.
I don't know about that either. I think it's purely about the natural wonder, just admiring what the landscape can look like.
|The Grand Canyon|
What do you mean by "Vegas feel”?
Hyper commercialized global tourism. Maybe that works? I don't know. The town south of Grand Canyon is there purely for tourists and I think it attracts an eclectic crew of people that work there. Maybe drifters to some degree?
Yes. Drifters are onto something. They've found what Alec Soth and the meditators want to achieve.
That's part of it, but I also got the feeling that it felt like being at huge world attraction, like the center of the action for some people.
Yeah, once something reaches that level of celebrity or prestige or whatever, it becomes hard to calibrate. The spotlight always fucks things up. Always. So the Grand Canyon gets twisted through that lens. There’s no way to experience it “purely”, whatever that means.
Are you going to tell me about your Instagram strategy?
Wait, what strategy?
You've been posting slideshows the last few months, with the visual connections, sometimes it's obvious, other times not so much. The word play sequences come to mind. It seems like a great format for you.
I just post whatever. No strategy! The word "strategy" give me hives.
Yeah, but you've done it a few times where you can read it like a weird cut up poem. Unless you deleted them all and I'm just imagining it.
The only strategy I have is to retreat from my last post. Whatever I post, the next one has to be different and unexpected. I’m not always successful but that's my "strategy". I'm trying like crazy to escape myself and all my patterns. But it's impossible.
I think that's great. I try that to some degree, or just go with whatever I'm feeling when I’m editing. Well, it's entertaining, but probably just for photonerds. You know your audience.
Oh fuck that's exactly that I don't want to know. Let me rephrase that. I want to know what people think, but also let it go. If that makes sense.
And it shows you think visually too. I know Friedlander is a huge influence...with the dumping of photos into the buckets. It's interesting to see how you do that. Remember, I've been following you for 10 years now! So I probably have more understanding than most casual viewer..
Wait, who's interviewing who here?
Instagram is a weird creature. I feel its influence. But I have generally tried to retreat from influence. Especially online shit. I mentioned the influence of the spotlight earlier, and I think that’s at play on Instagram. There’s a certain performative aspect —an entertainer/audience symbiosis— which I think influences the content.
That’s true for sure, very performative. It’s amazing how it has become the online focal point for nearly everyone involved with photography and how people make their living from it. It’s crazy. I was on it early on but deleted my first account and never picked up much momentum. It’s humbling in many ways.
Everything is on Instagram these days. All the online photography attention seems to be focused on this one platform. I think for some photographers it's a relief since it's all visual.
I don't pretend to understand it.
We're at a new point with social media. I don't know what's next but I feel a shift coming.
What's the shift?
I don't know for sure —if I did know I could probably make some money— but I think Gen Z is hyper attentive to the time they spend looking at screens. I think more and more data will come out about the harmful effects of screen time, social media, all of that which many people have been arguing for years.
My kids are millennials, I think (?). Born 2000 - 2005. Their entire world is screens. That's not a critique, just a fact.
What's Gen Z? What years?
Mid-1990s to early-2000s The generations overlap. I'm a Xennial, generation catalono.
I can always remember my generation because I read the original Generation X by Douglas Coupland, just after it came out in 1991.
I still haven't read it, but I like Slacker.
Slacker the movie? Best film of all time.
Yeah, I've only seen it once. I don't remember it, but it's good. I feel like watching it again would ruin it.
Haha, just take a walk by the theater while it's playing. It's all about the process.
Peak 90s nostalgia has crested I think though, we're into the 2000s now.
I can't keep track of any of that shit. Generations this and that. I just know what I feel, and what I see in those around me. For my kids, their generation is wrapped up in screens. They have a new reality.
Yes, and I wonder what happens when they become full adults. I wonder if that deep knowledge will make them...superhuman or something. And I think it's true what you say, we are only beginning to realize the impact —positive and negative— of this new reality. The economics are huge too because you have a lot of people that can only survive in the attention economy. Some people simply can't check out, it becomes a privilege, like those parents that limit screen time or go on retreats without devices and such.
Where value is accumulated by the amount of attention an outlet or 'creator' can accrue which is then leveraged to make a living and earn big money in some cases. It's all of the tactics that are used to get the attention that are the cause for concern.
OK. What about the basic need for attention? Is that a concern?
Yeah, I have no idea, that's where it gets very complicated because lots of people find community online and need that type of attention just to survive emotionally.
Beyond online though. A culture which financially rewards people based on "attention". To me that seems off.
I don't think you are alone in that sentiment but that’s basically the art and entertainment industry. Attention drives that economy.
Yeah, the attention is the gasoline in the art world’s engine. But the dude who plumbs your kitchen. The lady who codes the city's library. The guy who makes photos of whatever. Aren't they all similar? No attention wanted or given. Does this mean their actions don’t have value?
Well, there’s certainly large parts of the economy that exists outside the media/entertainment attention complex. I think it would be great if artists were rewarded just for the creation. We need more subsidies for the arts in the United States. It's depressing.
I don't know if subsidies are the answer.
There’s not enough money to support all the art, perhaps there’s another system that will emerge with Generation Z.
Did you watch the Democratic debates?
Yeah I watched. It's a terrible format with 10 people.
That's the attention economy in action. It's cast as a prize-fight. Who will win? Who will gain redemption? The drama is building bla bla bla…
At this point, you need to be really following politics closely to understand the narrative. Otherwise it just looks like a bunch of people yelling at each other. Which it is. And at this point they are playing only to the base with the media trying to drive a deeper wedge so they can heighten the drama like you said.
I'm just throwing out critiques. I don't have the answers. But "attention" seems like a very thin formula for judgement. Anyway, who do you like so far? If the election was tomorrow.
I'm keeping an open mind right now but I think Warren is the absolute north star in terms of communicating her policies, many of which I agree with. I like Mayor Pete too.
|Arches National Park|
She's on the rise. But I think Trump would bury her. Unfortunately.
I don't know about that. The rules are different than 2016. It's a long time to November 2020. I'm sure everything we've discussed will be obsolete by then.
Yeah, everything's speeding up here as we near the end...Were you a walker as a kid?
I swung at too many pitches outside the zone so probably didn't walk as much as I should. Dominated the sandlot games though. Monster walk off home runs. I didn't start walking for recreation until college.
Haha. Baseball is the sports version of Sugimoto. Unless the A's are playing. What are you, Twins fan?
I just re-watched Ken Burns baseball. I like the history more than the game at this point. But I love going to the parks. I saw a twilight double header in Philly! Crazy. Those are rare these days. It was awesome. I'm a baseball park fan.
Yeah, but what team?
I can't be a fan anymore. I spent the first 20 years of my life obsessed with it, so it's too much for me.
Oh fuck it's not a choice.
See, there we go.
I was in the stadium in 1991 for game 7. Game 6 too.
Fandom is involuntary. You can't pick your team any more than you can pick sexual attraction. It's just there.
What about if you live in Montana?
Why not the Mariners?
Where are they from again? Just kidding.
Seattle. There are regions where the fandom is split in weird ways. I kinda sorta remember an article about that a few years back.
The Mariners are closest to me. So by geography I should like them. But I have been an A's fan since age 9. I grew up in No-Cal. My fate was set early on. And then you form sort of an immunity. After that initial inoculation you can’t catch any other team.
I had a friend who was a Braves fan because his dad was from Milwaukee and watched them play as a kid. So he hated the Twins. Didn't the A’s invent Sabermetrics?
Well the A’s were the subject of Moneyball. But Sabermetrics goes back to before that. Bill James and his crew back in the 1980s.
Do the A's have a new stadium yet? Weren't they going to move to Vegas or something?
That's part of their weird drama. The team that is unloved, unattended, with a crappy stadium. Low payroll. The underdog. There were actually rumors of a move to Portland. But who knows.
I need to go to Portland, speaking of walking (hiking) cities.
Yeah? Look me up. I'm good for a few beers or maybe a dozen. So when did you get into walking?
I don't know if I walked a lot as a kid. I think I rode my dirt bike more. I started in Minneapolis when I lived there in my early 20s, but it was Los Angeles that brought it out more because I wanted to be outside and explore.
|from Genesee Ave.|
With a camera?
I didn't have a camera in Minneapolis. That started in Los Angeles in 2005. I'm might self-publish a book of LA photos this year, but also have a book ready for my Skyway project.
Dude, you been sayin' that forever.
Haha. I know. I put it off so I could hit the 10 year threshold. It feels like a good milestone. I feel I need to take my time but the time is probably now.
Photos are weird. They almost always get more interesting over time.
Absolutely. Does your view change? Yes, of course.
So maybe wait another 40 years for good measure?
One monograph of the best photographs isn’t a bad way to go either but I like making book dummies around different ideas and projects. It just takes time to fully feel they are ready, if they ever will be. How many books has Friedlander made?
I don't think Friedlander is really in control of his books anymore. I don't know this for sure but my guess it's some outside entity (Yale?) milking his archive. That’s just a guess. Who really knows. That's fine. It's the attention economy, right? gotta ride that horse while it's still kicking.
He made a lot of books in the day though, right?
Yes, he made a ton of books back in the day, and who knows, maybe he's still overseeing them? I’m not sure. I just know there are so many it feels like a glut at this point.
Yeah, I think that's one problem with the photobook world is that all the legends come out with a book every year now. What about Daido?
I don't know much about him or his books. But Japanese photographers have been known to be prolific.
Doesn't Daido Moriyama come out with a book every year? Seems like I always see something new floating around.
I can't keep track. If he does something amazing, let me know. Otherwise, let him be.
I recently read this while doing some research, speaking of old school bloggers.
Oh fuck, Jeff Ladd was the best. What happened back there? What was in the water? All these smart folks online in 2007-2010ish? Then gone. Poof. WTF?
Was that the prime photoblog period?
Yeah, blogging was happening. Maybe someone will write the history. But when you mentioned Jeff Ladd it hit home. Such an amazing writer. Out in public for just a few short years before retreating to the forgotten realm.
He was one of the best. He’s on his own domain now, but nothing since 2017.
He's in a better place.
Wait a minute...metaphorically in a better place?
He's in Germany with his young family. Probably spending energy on way better stuff than photo crap.
Ah, got it.
And not just him. A whole movement! For about 4 years? Then kaput. I mean look at the fucking critics online now. ————? —————? —————? Are you kidding me?
Again, might want to keep that off the record!
Sometimes I wonder, what happened? There was something there for a few years. Then gone. What was it? Why did it go?
I have a hard time reading too much photography criticism. I like reading about history and process more. I think people thought for a moment that blogs could be sustainable economically and then when there wasn't some big payoff people just left. Also, a new generation arrived and I think it was a different type of audience. Millennials took over internet and turned it into a hustle out of economic necessity.
Payoff? OMG, fuck payoff. Fuck the attention economy. The only good things ever have come from personal passion, not payoff. Sorry to sound idealist. But it’s true. And I think there was some real passion back then around blogging. I’m just not sure what changes.
Economics are real! No matter the pursuit, I think you need to be obsessed and doing it for a deep personal need to be successful or find personal fullfillment. Interesting that it was right during the great recession too, beginning of the Obama era.
Yeah, there was probably some connection to the recession, with folks out of work or looking for a transition.
That was around the time I made a career pivot.
So maybe the next recession will spur a new wave of artistic creativity?
I don't know. I would rather not think about it.
I don't wish a recession, of course. But they are inevitable at some point in the cycle. And if we don't have one before next fall we get Trump again, I think. Good economy = Trump Win. So there’s that.
I don't know about that. It's too unpredictable at this point. There hasn't been a huge international event in awhile so…
...I'm 42 going on 43 now. I take it one walk at a time.
What kind of event?
The usual suspects, major leader dies, terrorism, war, mass shooting, natural disaster, alien contact.
Alien contact! Yes. Curious how that would fit into Trump's worldview. Trump advisor: “Sorry to bother your morning nap, sir, but alien warships are attacking our major cities!” Trump: “Hmm, how can I deflect responsibility for this? Did the aliens start planning this during lame Obama’s last term?” Meanwhile GOP is silent, awaiting Trump’s lead. How will it play with the base? How should we spin it?
|from Los Angeles 26|
I can't shake the feeling that we're going to make contact with aliens (again?) within my lifetime.
My kid wants be to take him to Area 51 this September. Big gathering down there. I think it's kind of a hoax. But even so it might be an awesome photo op.
That's going to turn out to be a marketing gimmick for a TV show. I'd go and then head down to Santa Fe to view wind chime art.
My kid would def NOT be down for wind chimes.
I've been to Santa Fe. I was a weird two days. I met a Vietnam vet living in a trailer by the river and he told me I would one day be a successful photographer. I would like to have a few words with him right about now, clearly not a seer.
This thread is too long and I'm trying to find the thing you said earlier about drifters. What was it? I was going to comment on the wisdom of drifters…
At the Grand Canyon.
….which are easy to glamorize, for sure. I know that lifestyle is rougher than I imagine it. I know it’s not all hunky-dory. Just yesterday they cleaned out about 2 tons of trash from a homeless camp by the river here.
No, it's not great for a lot of them, especially with the opioid epidemic.
But there's something to it, maybe something we can learn from, the antidote to "attention economy"? I always think of the Avedon book In The American West. One of my alltime favorites.
Perhaps. From that book, the antidote is paying closer attention to where you live.
one of the captions is just "Drifter" (Richard Avedon, Clarence Lippard, Drifter, Interstate 80, Nevada, August 29)
|Richard Avedon, Clarence Lippard, Drifter, Interstate 80, Nevada, August 29, 1983.|
Do I own that book? I know I have an Avedon book. I have Nothing Personal. That has the Baldwin writing. Great book.
“Drifting…on a sea of forgotten teardrops…” Now I have that song in my head. A good walk should clean it out of there…