tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post3019161221837890210..comments2024-03-26T23:27:56.399-07:00Comments on B: More thoughts on WinograndBlake Andrewshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07187987264904729243noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-15384025046414533772013-04-14T09:19:45.197-07:002013-04-14T09:19:45.197-07:00Jacques, I do not yet have the book but I've b...Jacques, I do not yet have the book but I've browsed a friend's copy. I would recommend getting it. There are some problems with it but in general it's a good effort. I'll have a more detailed review soon. In the meantime I think some other places online have written about it.Blake Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07187987264904729243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-78738782468527273052013-04-12T10:25:57.036-07:002013-04-12T10:25:57.036-07:00Very good writing Blake. I'm totally sold on W...Very good writing Blake. I'm totally sold on Winogrand, no need to elaborate on that. I'm just back from my local bookshop and saw the big book recently published about GW. Was sealed and could not have a look. I understand it's the catalog of that SFMoMA exhibition. I'll probably buy it... Anyone has feedback ?Jacques Philippenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-13189932558700037292013-03-24T20:18:35.851-07:002013-03-24T20:18:35.851-07:00Great conversation. I go with Chuck when he sugges...Great conversation. I go with Chuck when he suggests that Winogrand is the pre-eminent photographer of the most convulsive period in modern American history. If nothing else, his output is an impeachable archive of what the American nation and its people fought for, played with, revelled in, gorged on on, fretted over and feared deeply. No need to look for his worth in the phsycological studies and photographic mania, it's all there in the archive. I wish I could go through it myself.....<br /><br />StephenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-29638342627987405742013-03-22T14:05:41.478-07:002013-03-22T14:05:41.478-07:00Agree Chuck... we know more about Winogrand than w...Agree Chuck... we know more about Winogrand than we do about Friedlander. Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15307585749403203716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-37149223811891019742013-03-17T12:58:26.820-07:002013-03-17T12:58:26.820-07:00By the way this is a good chance to remember who L...By the way this is a good chance to remember who Leo Rubinfien really is, not just as a writer but as a photographer and this video is a fitting starting point.<br />http://www.americansuburbx.com/2011/04/asx-tv-leo-rubinfein-paths-through-the-global-city-photographs-by-leo-rubinfien-2011.html<br /><br />Thank you for the profound and lengthy article Blake...and for the pdf.<br />More questions raised than answered but this is indicative of any worthy piece of writing.Zisis Kardianoshttp://www.burnmyeye.org/zisiskardianos/bio/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-72432820327308154562013-03-16T05:00:51.647-07:002013-03-16T05:00:51.647-07:00All this make me think if the photographer vision ...All this make me think if the photographer vision is more tied to his/her own edits or the whole of the raw work. Yes, both are linked but there are a reason to only pick some frames and not to show all. The difficult that GaryS commented about Winogrand difficult to edit is because he did a lot of photos. He had difficult from the start to edit in camera. This don't mean that he wanted to show all. Edition is necessary and important in the way we show our work. Obviously I have a lot of interest in know all the other stuff but I tend to think, as Stan B., that is most for biographical purposes or curiosity about Winogrand's way of work. Hernan Zentenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10827574143876112004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-5401766481389244452013-03-13T23:49:58.914-07:002013-03-13T23:49:58.914-07:00Araki has a name for himself which is "Photo...Araki has a name for himself which is "PhotoManiac". Something I believe that Winogrand had too. I believe that at some point everything makes sense in the world for a photographer, the camera and its surrounding in perfect unison and its there for the taking and its a photographers duty to seize that and own it. (Sorry if it sounds like hippy S**t,) not the best at explaining my case through written word. <br />Blake be sure to give me a call when you come to S.F. I would like you to to see something. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00658793900625650648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-85309749861786404432013-03-13T10:35:57.811-07:002013-03-13T10:35:57.811-07:00Your essay is wonderful. Thanks.Your essay is wonderful. Thanks.Philiphttp://www.philipheying.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-15910936580870263722013-03-13T07:24:41.155-07:002013-03-13T07:24:41.155-07:00Cue Time article:
http://lightbox.time.com/2013/0...Cue Time article:<br /><br />http://lightbox.time.com/2013/03/13/an-american-epic-the-work-of-garry-winogrand/#1Blake Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07187987264904729243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-44226312697719676592013-03-12T19:54:31.885-07:002013-03-12T19:54:31.885-07:00I hear what you are saying, but that doesn't b...I hear what you are saying, but that doesn't bother me much either, at least in Winogrand's case. We are talking about someone who apparently was happy to have help with editing, who would frequently show up with a few hundred photos to show rather than 30 or 40, and someone who left no indication he would object to such treatment.<br /><br />I've seen the new show and my opinion is that Rubinfien and Co. have brought something that was lacking in the MOMA retrospective. Aside from briefly addressing the unfinished work, did Szarkowski do much more than re-stage the well-known work in a familiar framework? The work was mostly presented according to subject themes (much like Winogrand's books), EI: Zoos, Rodeo, etc.<br />Rubinfien has pretty much disregarded these divisions in favor of addressing the work as a more cohesive whole (There is surprisingly little reference to Winogrand's books in the show). The many "New" pictures only seem to support this coherence, but also give viewers an appreciation for the depth of Winogrand's talent.<br />GaryShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08182083200217494264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-31889251477500338762013-03-12T19:51:05.415-07:002013-03-12T19:51:05.415-07:00We can always wonder how Winogrand might've vi...We can always wonder how Winogrand might've viewed his post-humous edits, or which photos he would've chosen given the chance. But I think with some photographers (Maier, Bellocq, etc) that's just part of the package. The edits and his photos are all wrapped up together by now, impossible to separate. <br /><br />Compulsive. Driven. Obsessed. Maybe it's not the dictionary definition of work ethic, but the end result is about the same. He lived and breathed photography to the exclusion of many other activities. That's generally what it takes to achieve in any creative field.Blake Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07187987264904729243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-43925867563095147482013-03-12T15:20:29.985-07:002013-03-12T15:20:29.985-07:00Agreed, but you're also likely to get work tha...Agreed, but you're also likely to get work that an artist may not have wanted to be exhibited, or remembered by. Personally, I tend to go with Szarkowski who thought there just wasn't that much there in the remaining thousands of exposures. And maybe I'm just somewhat let down by the hype of the long awaited, never before seen, hidden treasures... Some of it is quite good, but much of it seems of interest for biographical purposes; in the end, it's just great he's getting another go around (as Papageorge seemed to suggest).<br />Stan B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17381743002180926900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-62954443471878173162013-03-12T14:47:08.383-07:002013-03-12T14:47:08.383-07:00The editing issue is not that relevant to me and t...The editing issue is not that relevant to me and this is why... Maybe a lot of people have edited (or helped edit) the work for different projects throughout his career, but when we look at the work, what do we see? Recurrence of themes, a consistent form, a recognizable voice. Yes, if you gave the same stack of his proof sheets to 2 different people and asked them to pick the best couple of dozen pictures, you may get 2 different sets of photographs. But what you will get is 2 different sets of Winogrand photographs. You won't get a set of Winogrands and a set of Westons.GaryShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08182083200217494264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-11621229721225530292013-03-12T14:24:39.194-07:002013-03-12T14:24:39.194-07:00The Wikipedia defines the work ethic as follows: &...The Wikipedia defines the work ethic as follows: "Work ethic is a set of values based on hard work and diligence. It is also a belief in the moral benefit of work and its ability to enhance character."<br />I am not so sure that this really applies to Winogrand's personality. Being compulsive does not necessarily mean on has a work ethic.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03968035806382391242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-53367703060234434152013-03-12T13:28:45.587-07:002013-03-12T13:28:45.587-07:00Yes, the gutter figure is on the back; perhaps gre...Yes, the gutter figure is on the back; perhaps great as a reflection of his mental state at the time- as for being a cover shot representative of his artistry...<br /><br />Papageorge suggested he was every bit as obsessive in his editing process as he was in his shooting- which also speaks to his mindset towards the end.Stan B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17381743002180926900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-45029176752871671432013-03-12T12:50:49.579-07:002013-03-12T12:50:49.579-07:00He is well known among photographers but I think h...He is well known among photographers but I think he is obscure in the eyes of the general public. Ask a random person on the street and almost no one will have heard of him.<br /><br />The proto-digital comparison is interesting. I think if he'd lived into the digital era his shooting would've been even more beyond control. So perhaps film saved him by at least putting some slight limits on his output.<br /><br />I don't know which shot is on the back of the catalog. Is it the LA shot of the gutter figure? I don't like that photo very much but it sort of exemplifies where he was at mentally. No moment, no composition, no focus. Just the shutter saying "I shall be released!"Blake Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07187987264904729243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-56595454820412758142013-03-12T12:37:01.210-07:002013-03-12T12:37:01.210-07:00I'm always kind of bemused at the idea of Wino...I'm always kind of bemused at the idea of Winogrand being in some way obscure. It seems to me that he's always been one of the most esteemed photographers to come out of the 60's. Time Magazine had a lengthy review of Public Relations when it came out in '77, and while his most iconic images were from the earlier years of his career - the mid 60's, let's say - they're still iconic. If I say "woman swimming with a pig" I think most photographers, or anyone else remotely familiar with the history of the medium will know exactly to what I'm referring. What's sort of interesting to me is the that his enormous output, without the corresponding personal editing is sometimes used as a cudgel - a variant of the thousand monkeys at a typewriter trope. Well, it's true that if we sift through a couple million images we're going to find a bunch of great ones. But this is one person! Operating with nothing other than a personal directive! However inchoate the compositions or viewpoints seem, there comes out of all that a truly complex and very personal sensibility, which you touch upon with your observation about the lack of people-less images. And a good part of the counterpoint to the barely sublimated argument that anybody who took that many shots would get a lot of good stuff is that nobody did! Even if there were nothing else to the story of his success (and I sure think there's a lot more) that would be enough to make him worthy of consideration. Michael David Murphy wrote a pretty good piece a few years ago about how Winogrand was a proto-digital photographer, which I think is on the money. But - and this is where the importance of this being photography is manifest - because he was "proto-digital" he created the one, true, monumental, personal, Balzacian document of the '60's that will, as time goes by (cue the violins) become the dominant visual reference of that era. chuckphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01941414373539650548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-56262657068616003672013-03-12T12:30:04.762-07:002013-03-12T12:30:04.762-07:00A couple of things- the Guardian article on Winogr...A couple of things- the Guardian article on Winogrand leaves the impression that he never edited his work (very far from true). And Papageorge called the current show a "landmark" exhibition while at the same time asking, "Does it matter if someone else picked out the photos? No, not really." It came off more as apology as he shrugged his shoulders and rolled his eyes, than a statement of affirmation. Personally, I gotta wonder if that blurry, shoddily composed LA shot plastered on the back cover of the current SFMOMA catalogue serves to enhance his legacy.Stan B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17381743002180926900noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-50464420532489447872013-03-12T11:11:10.781-07:002013-03-12T11:11:10.781-07:00Ops, when I talked about paying a hotdog or settin...Ops, when I talked about paying a hotdog or setting lights I referred to Di CorciaHernan Zentenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10827574143876112004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4935046131385109105.post-25555286597313690792013-03-12T11:09:33.831-07:002013-03-12T11:09:33.831-07:00Don't cry about those comments, we are a lot o...Don't cry about those comments, we are a lot of people in this world and in some way is normal to find this kind of comments. Surely Philip Lorca Di Corcia can do very well photos for money. But I have more interest in Winogrand photos that in the images he did paying a hotdog to someone for pose or hiding some flashes to get a good light. In your recent interview with Liz Kuball I saw too some trouble about doing photos as job instead as some necessity. I do both and I am in trouble constantly cause is difficult to manage both, I think one of the best known photographer that can do well both is Elliott Erwitt.<br />Coming back to Winogrand trajectory maybe at last he develop some kind of Vivian Maier syndrome, some primitive need to frame and shoot without check later what he got. He wanted life in his photos, that is the reason he did all times photos of people doing things or animals and not abstract forms. Maybe he pursued so much to portrait life that he ended dedicating his life to act of portrait it. As if was an unconscious message of a message (metamensaje, sorry, English is not my mother language). You are lucky to see the show, I am very far but I give you many thanks for share all this articles of a person that call my attention every time I found some article about him. SaludosHernan Zentenohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10827574143876112004noreply@blogger.com